Why the Smartest Product Teams Never Go to a Budget Meeting Empty-Handed

[0:01] Nix: Good morning, good afternoon, or good evening, wherever you’re joining us from. Welcome. You’re in the right place for today’s webinar. Why the smartest product teams never go to a budget meeting empty-handed. I’m Nix, your host, and today we’ll explore how product teams can better collaborate with finance and tech by bringing the one thing every budget meeting needs, data-backed clarity. You’ll learn how to bridge silos, uncover hidden software costs, and justify every budget line item with confidence. Whether you’re negotiating, defending spend, or seeking more resources. As always, feel free to drop your questions into the Q&A panel during the session. We’ll answer as many as we can live, and we’ll follow up after the webinar via email or LinkedIn if we don’t get to everything. Now let’s meet our speakers for today.

[0:52] From Open iT, Inc. David brings 25 years of oil and gas leadership experience from ConocoPhillips and BP combining deep industry knowledge with expertise in digital product and strategic asset management from the Enterprise Value Consulting Network. Mark is a certified expert in financial operations, technology business management, and IT infrastructure library. He helps bridge IT, finance, and governance, making technology investments clearer, more strategic, and easier to defend in the boardroom. Let’s welcome David and Mark to the session.

[1:29] David: Delighted to have a little bit of partnership with Mark, have a bit of discussion and not be here, not be on my own. So yeah. So Mark, you were away yesterday at a FinOps event, is that right? And how was that? Was that enjoyable?

[1:46] Mark: Yeah, it was a fantastic event, was in Amsterdam. Which means early flight in and a late flight out. But for all of you, or especially for you David, next time we should meet there. There is a real nice community of tech finance or finance tech people. And if you ever wonder if there are other like-minded experts who want to talk tech or technology, software and licenses and cost, I can really recommend to go there. It’s a really nice setup. And yeah, also have a look at their website. It’s the FinOps website. Really good stuff on there, especially for license management.

[2:32] David: I will, good. I will do, and I know that Open iT partners with FinOps as well and Amsterdam is an easy hop for me up from Aberdeen, Scotland as well. So I should definitely plan for that. Okay, let’s get going.

[2:50] So this is our agenda, a bit of an introduction and then we’re going to talk about, or Mark particularly will focus on, some of the pitfalls of organizational silos. Those barriers within an organization that prevent you making good solid decisions. What are they and how they can be prevented? How you understand cost and value. So cost and value, however you want to define value, because organizations define value in different ways. Their ROI is measured differently. Different organizations, you know, is it more production? Is it more sales? Is it simply more revenue? Is it more prospects? It’s a difficult thing and you must marry that along with your costs. Talk a little bit about how Open iT can underpin those good decisions and provide data to give you that data, and then we’ll have a little bit of a questions and answers and a wrap-up. So with that I will hand over to you Mark to frame the problem and give us an introduction.

[3:51] Mark: Thanks for that. Yep. So just to understand, when I’m talking, I’m talking mainly with the head of a finance accounting controlling person, right, so that’s my background and this is what I want to debate a little bit today with David, how we get this together, and what we are seeing often in our projects are these three personas you see on the left. So the finance community, the finance staff, the business, or sometimes it’s called operations, and IT technology with a CIO. And while all of these obviously have their own agenda and all their own objectives, so when we talk about finance, about budget adherence and forecast cost predictability, and business is looking for cool new tech stuff which drives revenue or drives efficiency in production or other things. Technology is at a lot of our customers at the core, right? It’s the core of the business. Digital solutions are enabling the business to better function. And what we face, and that is now the problem statement in a sense, often is that these three communities or departments they operate in silos. So everyone, all of them, are optimizing on their own and this creates just tension, and tension can come and we see this in different flavors. So it can mean that the CFO is super frustrated saying I don’t understand tech, why don’t they stick to the budget? It can’t be that complicated. And the business might argue technology is not delivering to my business objectives. It’s not fulfilling quality. I always have to complain about SLAs or the newest functionalities I don’t get. And then the CFO steps in, yeah, you don’t get them because they’re too expensive, right?

[6:09] And these sometimes hidden or also often surface tensions we see in our ITFM, so IT financial management projects. And some of the symptoms you then see is an intransparent, or not transparent, product cost transparency is missing, ITFM as a corporate muscle is missing, and overall tech and business can’t discuss what is a cost for tech value, right, what do I get out of my tech spend. So that is a really common scheme we see.

[6:50] And going into this in a little bit more detail, I’m starting quickly to explain the graph which we are seeing. X is the collaboration style, so either you’re on, I wouldn’t call it a hostile area, but at least you’re not collaborating, or you’re collaborating on the bottom right, and then we have the orientation, are you more functional focused or siloed, or are you business outcome driven. And what we are seeing, and this is where the tension is coming in, bottom left, and where we want to go is the top right. So this is really what breaking these silos means, is bringing these three communities to a table and talking the same language about the same topic but obviously with three different lenses, and that is what this is really about.

[7:56] David: If you could switch to the next. Yeah, I completely agree Mark and one of the dangers of that siloed organization is of course shadow or gray IT, which bypasses all controls, you know, somebody buys software with a project or a capital budget because they don’t feel they’re being served because, as you say, their conversation is not there, the value is not being articulated. And that shadow IT, obviously on the one hand it’s bad but often it pushes the innovation that the business feels that it needs, but really having that good data and having that transparency is the key to that. That’s back to you.

[8:41] Mark: I agree. I might have a, well, looking back it’s an anecdote, right? So I was working for one of the companies and in these times of SaaS and pay as you go like software spending, what we found in one of our projects, we found some material software on the credit cards. So someone really bypassed the whole finance governance in a sense, right, and this is really a symptom of something is not working right. The innovation rate, the delivery speed is not up to the expectations, and you bypass finance, but yeah, this case triggered a good discussion in the organization how to implement proper governance but also deliver speedy software to the consumer.

[9:44] Okay. Coming back perhaps to the benefits of our top right corner, right, when we are going there, or why we should go there, is first of all bringing the people under one umbrella talking the same language. So when someone is talking about software it can have different meanings for finance. So they think about, worst case it’s a capex as an invest I need to depreciate, and business is talking often about functionalities or capabilities, how does it support my business, and tech is often then talking about technology or the tech stack, right, what do I need to run this, do I need server, on-premises, cloud. And bringing these three lenses together, this is really helpful. What drives this is you come from a guesstimate and blurry information to fact-based decisions, and this optimization leads to better decision making. So it’s less financial risk, it’s better predictability, forecast quality increases, and ultimately I think especially during these times it frees up budget. So if you decrease information imbalances, if you have the same information and data points in front of you and insights, this is really helping to optimize spend in the mid or long run.

[11:18] Right, and you might ask yourself, okay, this sounds nice, right? So on paper it might look easy to achieve, but how do we make this happen. And one of our really our mantras is you need to have a core team or a core in your organization, some teams which are really interested to drive this change, and from our experience and also from Gartner research and others, the product teams, they should be the ones which are the driver of this change, the catalyst. They might be called product teams or service teams or application teams or application portfolio teams. In the end, these are the teams which are business facing. So delivering tech services or technology and bridging into these three communities, right, and the product teams or the product owners, these are the ones which tie the threads together. They can bridge into the business, understanding what are the requirements, and they’re becoming like a co-pilot of the business, understanding business requirements and translating this into tech requirements. And on the other hand, they’re also, with a little bit of help I would say, able to negotiate or have the conversation with a finance community saying okay this is our TCO for this application, we have talked to the business, they need more or less of that, this means our forecast, our budget goes up or down, we have jointly identified these optimization levers which brings then the three communities again together.

[13:26] And I think this is now the handover to you David, right, so how do we drive this type of optimization, how do we give, yeah, exactly, how do we support it.

[13:34] David: Yeah, how do we give, you know, and those guys in the middle of this triangle, I have a massive amount of sympathy with, partly because I’ve been in that situation a lot myself. But often they’re people who have all the responsibility but not necessarily the authority. You know they are responsible for keeping the budget on line. They’re responsible for maintaining the right service to the business. You know they have to be within the constraints of their organization but they often don’t have the actual authority. Their name isn’t on that budget but they’re responsible to deliver the service. So you need to give those people the best possible information. Ideally, you know, if they have domain knowledge as well, which really helps out, whatever the domain that you’re in, whatever vertical or industry you’re in, that business knowledge as well is of course ideal. So really what we’re trying to do is empower those people.

[14:36] So looking at how you optimize your products as a generalized term for applications and what your workflow is, and how Open iT can help with that, really you’re looking at, you get your bill in the door, you get your quote, you know you have to pay it, and what are you going to do? You need to see what your licenses are, what you’re using. You need to know denials. Are you hitting a limit? Are you restricting your business because you’re under-licensed, or do you have capacity yet? Are you over-licensed? You’ve got a ceiling that you don’t need, that you can analyze and potentially make savings. You need to find who, the who is so important. Who are your top users? Because they’re going to help you with that top of that triangle, your key business people. And it may not always be the people you think. It may not be the guy with a fancy job title. It might be somebody who simply is using that for the benefit of the organization. And you need to identify them because you need to get them on board. You need to then agree any changes that need to be made and then you process it from there on, and that is actually a cyclicity that, depending on your contract, goes on year after year. Always important to ask questions, you know, who is using it, should they be using it, because the tool they’re using may not be appropriate, and again that’s where some of your business or domain leaders will help you. Is there an alternative, a better alternative, both from an IP perspective or from a cost perspective? And then who’s going to make those decisions about that? Is it the best tool for the job? Do you have a good relationship with the vendor? What’s their stability? What’s the future of our partnership? Again, a very important question to look at and analyze because that can make a difference to how you’re going to progress long term. Is the vendor investing in the product that you’re buying or is it in a harvest mode? The license monitoring, denials, capacity in your top is very much an area that Open iT can help with and that’s kind of what I’m going to focus on.

[16:37] So in simple terms, you have a licensing profile that your organization has, that you bought, and Open iT can show you that. However, beneath that will be a true usage. You know what’s actually happening? Where’s the idle time? Where’s the inactive time? Where are you over-licensed? Where do you have modules within a subset that you’re not actually using? So you want to bring those two curves together and show where your licensed or entitled situation is properly matching your true usage situation.

[17:16] And Mark, I think you always find this one fascinating.

[17:20] Mark: Yeah. I must stop or pause you here. So from a finance perspective, right, I’m looking again on this from a finance perspective. What we are only seeing in an SAP, ERP, Oracle is the green line, right? This is what we are discussing back and forth in traditional legacy budget meetings. What are the purchased licenses, right? What is the cost? But what we don’t see is how is this capacity used? What is the unused capacity? What are patterns? Is it going up or is it going down? So when I saw this for the first time I was really, I’m still very enthusiastic about it, but when you think this across the board of all your engineering applications, you come from this pure cost view into a cost per value, cost per unit. So it’s shifting the discussion to a completely different point, right? You’re not discussing P&L lines anymore. It’s okay, this is the application we purchase with this capacity and we see it’s very well used or not, and this is really eye opening for the finance community because we are always looking for inefficiencies.

[18:55] David: Brilliant. Thank you, Mark. And I love it that you understand the finance side because I’m not a finance guy and it’s great to be in partnership with somebody who has that experience.

[19:05] So just very simply, what does Open iT kind of do if you don’t know. At a basic level it looks at license servers. It analyzes the check-ins and checkouts of your usage. It knows who’s using it for how long, when were they using it for. Fairly basic stuff. And you can look at that over a long period of time. You can look at it real time as well. Who’s logged in right now from that license server? What’s been the trend over time? Really good stuff and the basics of your analysis. However, in addition, you can actually look at idle time as well. Open iT has an agent that can look at desktops, cloud platforms. It’s fairly platform agnostic, licensing technology agnostic, that it can show you who has an application open and logged out but isn’t actually using it, and that can be really valuable insight to help you bring down that curve as well, because in addition to looking at that active usage, you can actually take action and you can harvest according to a criteria. So if you have a lot of users who are checking out expensive licenses but aren’t using them, you can get some data on that and you can bring those application licenses back into the pool to be available for others, but the sessions remain open. So you don’t restrict users’ functionality. You know, they might have a completely legitimate reason for leaving their machine inactive, but when they come back to work it’s all there for them and they can get another license from the pool. That really is very efficient and actually gives the users a lot of freedom to do what they need to do.

[20:50] Yeah. So, in summary, Open iT is providing you with the answers that you need to, you know, be in those discussions that we’ve been talking about. You know, who is using it now and in the past? How long are they using it for? Who are they? Where do they sit? What’s their function? Connecting to Active Directory will tell you a lot of that information, what the user cohort is, and also many applications are highly modular with a suite of functionality that you want to look all across, because your expert users can legitimately use some of that high complexity, but you have many others that don’t need it. I mean I’ll use the analogy of Adobe Creative Cloud in that, you know, not everybody needs Premiere Pro, you know, Audition, After Effects, they just need to write a PDF. And we have equivalents across automotive, you know, things like Autodesk, the oil and gas industry, where those applications are designed for different levels of functionality in mind.

[21:52] To show the way of idle time where you can reclaim licenses to give maximum flexibility and freedom to users.

[22:00] Mark: David, one comment. If you quickly go back, right, and I’m coming again with the FinOps experience, right. All these type of questions, these are questions which are also struggling other license or software owners, right. So I think the questions are the same. So if you’re owning a Microsoft 365, if you’re owning PTC or ANSYS or Autodesk, it’s always about this, how can I get transparency into cost and capacity and usage. How can I inform the right people, optimize, and bring this in a continuous loop that we move from a crawl, walk, run phase and become better. And this is really one of these FinOps patterns which I have seen yesterday, and perhaps for all of you who are also struggling with this, you’re not alone, right. So it’s a very very common schema which is repeating again and again. Depending on the software or license it has different perspectives, but the core problem is always the same. This is what I’m seeing from an IT financial management point of view.

[23:22] David: Brilliant, thank you, thank you Mark. I’m not going to go into a lot of detail today around you know the reporting and the different consoles that Open iT does. We have other webinars, and please, we’re more than happy to show you that detail relevant to your organization, just please let us know.

[23:43] But you can see graphs of total usage, cumulative usage. You can see a lovely heat map to see what times of the day how application usage changes across your time zones, which can be really fascinating when your peak times are. You obviously very wary of having your whole licensing structure built around, you know, peaks in usage, which we often find organizations typically do an awful lot of work in spring and then again in September, and typically the most amount of checkouts you get is on a Wednesday afternoon or a Thursday afternoon. So you have to be wary of basing your whole licensing structure around a peak in May and a peak in September, which can really happen, and this kind of heat map can really help you analyze that, plan for it, and again bring that curve down so your entitlement is matching your actual usage.

[24:41] Again a lot of detail here. The top graph is showing you all the sessions that an application is running at any given time. But it’s also showing how many are active, actively being used, and how many are suspended. So you can see that anything when you have applications suspended, they’re running, but the license is back in the pool, you know, you’re being efficient. You know that your users have a lot of freedom and you’re serving them efficiently with a lower volume of pool of licenses, but not diminishing any level of functionality. Very very very powerful.

[25:18] You can do the same across, get analysis across technical teams, and this can be really valuable in those budget meetings where you know somebody’s legitimately saying well who are these guys, what are their job functions, should they be doing it, and you can have that information right there and then. This particular view is actually from Power BI. You can link Open iT with Power BI to match it with any data source within your organization which is very helpful for showing who and also where, and the where is really common with budgeting, with allocation models in a large organization. You know you’ve got different fiscal regimes, you’ve got different demands. So you want to be able to, you know, in the US or Europe or the Far East have different fiscal regimes, and you want to be able to analyze that. Business units may want to know what it is they’re paying for, what they’re budgeting for. Very very useful, very very valuable when those difficult questions come up, that you can slice and dice it very quickly and provide those answers.

[26:20] So going back to our product optimization workflow, the key area that we want to focus on is that agreeing area, the discussion area. Everything outside of that is somewhat, hesitant to say transactional, but you know, on one hand you’ve got the mechanics of paying the bills. You’ve got the mechanics of looking at the data, and the data is all very exciting, but it’s really only any use for the answers that it can provide. It’s information you need from data. And really, when it comes to that agreement, we’re talking about that partnership in that middle of that pyramid.

[26:58] And when you look to make that up and who should be part of it, you know, product owners of course is the group we’ve been focusing on, the people with the responsibility but not necessarily the authority. So we want to bring those budget holders in, the service owners. Who’s supporting these applications? They might, you know, we’ve talked about the strict financial cost of paying the bills, but if an application has a high support overhead, a lot of data loading, a lot of problems, uses a lot of problematic infrastructure, you want to bring that into the equation because that needs to be balanced up with your value that you’re providing for your business, your business experts, of course. Now, who do you find, how do you find those business experts? Your top users from Open iT is, as I say, a perfect way to find those business experts. People are going to give you a strong opinion. People are going to drive your organization forward and give you the legitimacy you need to have an adult conversation with your finance and management. A good range of business areas as well. I talked about across the world. If you can bring together different areas as well to provide that good decision making, because if you don’t include those people at this decision making, it’s only going to come back and haunt you later and lead to these other problems around siloing. So the siloing can be organizational but it can be regional too.

[28:26] And I’ve certainly experienced that in large organizations where corporate is always right. You know, you have a central office and they’re not taking properly into account what your distributed business wants and needs.

[28:39] Procurement too, like, so we haven’t even mentioned procurement yet, and one of the what they will tell you is they may well be in charge of the contract. So know what the contracts are. You want to focus on the low-hanging fruit where you can get value. So really you want a contract that’s going to be negotiated soon with the highest value, is obviously where you want to go after and think the most about. If you have a contract that’s not due for 18 months or longer, you want to park it, and procurement is going to be best to advise you with that. Is there a clause in that contract that says you must give warning in 90 days or 30 days or perhaps even longer? Super important to have somebody who’s cognizant of the contracts in on that discussion.

[29:24] And what are they going to do for you? They’re going to help you with that all-important prioritization to get you the best value. They’re going to give you a level of authorization that you can use around that pyramid to articulate properly and kind of speak with confidence. Gives you an audit trail of the decisions made and makes very clear the justification for making those decisions, really to drive you forward.

[29:52] So really, that’s a little bit of, I think we’re coming to the end of our chat today. Yeah, and product owners, secret rock stars, superheroes, that we kind of weren’t sure about titles for today’s chat, but I guess we want to, we’re motivated to empower those kind of unsung people in the middle of the pyramid.

[30:16] Mark: True. And what I have seen in real practice is when you run this in this fashion. So you called it on the previous slide project board or steering board. Sometimes we use a term like quarterly business review. It’s this type of cadence right where you come together, and imagine you are this product owner and bring all the insights saying we have done our job. We have optimized the capacity. We know how the demand in future might even develop, right. Then there are no surprises, and this mental hurdle perhaps to go into one of these budget meetings, it’s not like you’re going into a court, right. It’s more bringing these triangle communities together, and you as a product owner can really drive the good business outcome-driven conversation. And I think this is quite, also on a personal level, quite a positive, enthusiastic way of doing the job, just in a different fashion, right. Finance is part of the patterns to optimize.

[31:39] David: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And you know it doesn’t matter what your methodology is, and every, you know our business loves to play with methodologies that have been, whether it’s agile or Kanban or, you know, whatever, using ADO, whatever, these principles will fit into any of those because it’s principles of communication and empowerment and good information. It’s kind of irrelevant of what your methodology is or what your cadence is. And as I would agree, it’s a message of positivity, you know, it’s not a message of, you know, we want to stifle innovation or restrict. It’s very much, this is what you can do. Always good to focus on what you can do. This is information to provide the right support and give the right information to make the best possible decisions. Okay so I don’t know, my throat’s a little bit dry now, all that talking, so we maybe hand back to Nix in the studio to ask if we have any questions.

[32:44] Nix: Thank you David and Mark for the insights. Plenty of practical ideas there. We do have some great questions here. So let’s dive right into the Q&A.

[32:53] So first we have, I believe this was a question meant to be asked earlier. Will this dive into how we can find shadow spend? So I believe David you touched about this topic briefly earlier but yeah, how about we deep dive into shadow spend.

[33:08] David: How do you find it, and it’s Mark, you mentioned the, you know, somebody spending software on their credit card. I mean, the one I’ve seen, and this is in the oil business, is people tend to get capital money for projects like to drill a well, and they will just use a bit of that money to make a phone call to a vendor and buy a couple of extra licenses on capital without thinking about the maintenance and support, without thinking about the support. And actually one of the ways you can spot it is it’ll pop up as an extra license on your, so Open iT will actually tell you, oh you’ve suddenly got licenses appearing and you need to pay attention to it. So that is one of the ways, and like I said, I don’t want to be totally down on shadow IT because you have to understand that they’re doing it for a reason and your current organization is not providing for them and you have to address that. So yeah it is a tricky one. It’s a good question. I think actually shadow IT is probably a subject to find those anomalies early.

[34:33] Nix: Great. Thank you. Thanks for that, David. We also have another question here. Can you name an approach for making this happen?

[34:47] Do you mean like how to, yeah. How to find the right people perhaps and how to get the right, yeah. Sorry. Maybe it has something to do, because you mentioned FinOps earlier. So maybe it has something to do with that.

[35:05] Mark: Yeah. So I think the nice idea of FinOps is that you can start small, right? You don’t have to look at the whole software spend across all applications. It’s more like you build a nucleus like a prototype and then from there you learn, right. So you start with let’s say the MATLAB application, you have a look into the cost which you see in your books and also in Open iT, you have a look into the usage, the user, and then you start the first set of smart questions and reach out to the peers saying okay we see an anomaly here, what does it mean, is it okay, it can be okay, but then let’s say we are already starting in this cycle of inform, optimize, and operate. And this is really the flywheel which is behind FinOps, besides other things, but I think this is really the nucleus. So start with the data you have and optimize from there.

[36:13] Nix: Great. Thank you. Thank you Mark. So moving on to the next question. Does this work with pay per use or tokenized licensing?

[36:24] David: Excellent, excellent question. Yeah, I mean the examples we’ve talked about so far are mostly based on traditional concurrent licensing, but it absolutely works for tokenized licensing or pay per use. And in many ways, it’s even more valuable because, you know, in traditional licensing models, you pay your money, you have your software, you know, you can’t really, you’re not going to bust your budget in that calendar year. But if you have a tokenized or pay per use, it can be efficient, but it also can be unpredictable. So you absolutely want to be on top of it right away to see what your run rate is, to see what your 1/1, your 2/10, your 3 as you go through the year. And also having knowledge of usage patterns from a pre-existing licensing method. So you know well, okay, our January usage, there’s a good chance it’s not going to reflect what the whole year is because January is a bit of a low month. So you need to be aware of those patterns and make plans as you go along. And probably in those situations you would have a cadence of meetings that would be higher. But the good news is you would have all the data available to you and at your fingertips in exactly the same way, but you then have to use that to predict what your run rate was going to be. But yeah, those licensing and those newer licensing technologies is absolutely something that Open iT is on top of.

[37:53] Mark: I can completely echo that also from a finance perspective, right? In the past, we had this, we purchase the licenses a little bit like pay and forget, and now we have the opportunity to, if we do our jobs jointly, to optimize on a shorter cadence, right? So it leads to a situation that we need the information on a regular basis. So as you highlighted, daily, weekly, monthly, see the trends and this becomes like a standard task of a product owner in this pay as you go and tokenized world.

[38:45] Nix: Thanks for the collaborative response. And lastly, we have here another question. What are your recommendations for getting the right people into the decision-making process?

[38:58] David: Buy them lunch. Yeah. So really, that is a little bit of a black art, but it is really really important. And again I would go back to using Open iT to find those right people, to look at who is using, you know, who is using maybe some of the obscure modules, who has a long pattern of ownership, you know, who has been using it a long time, finding whose name is on the contract, finding who the vendor is speaking to, who’s on speed dial from the account rep for that company. Who is generating the most support calls? That’s another really good one. So, you know, looking at your IT asset management database to see who’s generating the calls. That can be another little trick to get those correct people together because often, depending on their job title, they’re not necessarily being consulted around some of these decisions, but they absolutely need to be. So I think in the good old days when everybody was in an office you would be floor walking to try and identify those people, but now you’re looking at more subtle methods, usage data, ticketing, who’s making the phone calls, that kind of good stuff. So yeah, it’s a tricky one, but it’s definitely worth pursuing.

[40:32] Nix: Great. And I think that concludes our Q&A. Thank you both for your thoughtful answers. Before we wrap up, just a quick reminder, this webinar was recorded and you’ll receive a link to the replay in your inbox shortly and you’ll also find it on our webinars on demand page at openit.com. Alongside the webinar recordings, you’ll find a link to our survey. Please send us your feedback and any topics you’d like for us to cover. Simply scan the QR codes on your screen to access both the recording and the survey. If you’re ready to walk into your next budget meeting with data that speaks for itself, book a free 30-minute consultation with one of our business solutions consultants to explore how we can help. Also, if you’re an existing customer, feel free to reach out directly to your account manager for next steps or additional details. Just use the contact details on your screen. And don’t forget to follow us at Open iT on social media for more insights and updates. If you’d like to connect with Mark or learn more about the Enterprise Value Consulting Network, here are their details. They’re a great resource for aligning IT, finance, and business strategy. Once again, I’m Nix. Thank you for spending time with us today. We’ll see you at the next webinar.